Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)

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The idea lab section of the village pump is a place where new ideas or suggestions on general Wikipedia issues can be incubated, for later submission for consensus discussion at Village pump (proposals). Try to be creative and positive when commenting on ideas.
Before creating a new section, please note:

Before commenting, note:

  • This page is not for consensus polling. Stalwart "Oppose" and "Support" comments generally have no place here. Instead, discuss ideas and suggest variations on them.
  • Wondering whether someone already had this idea? Search the archives below, and look through Wikipedia:Perennial proposals.
« Archives, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31


Discussing how to write an FAQ that addresses a talk page topic[edit]

I think it would be useful to know how and when a talk page subject should become an FAQ section.

What would be the best way of discussing this with people that have done it? --ProbablyAndrewKuznetsov (talk) 05:50, 26 February 2020 (UTC)

This editor asked a very similar question at Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 64#Learning how to write a good FAQ section for a talk page. Let's centralize any discussion there. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:35, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Bot proposal (from Teahouse)[edit]

Hi, I've thought of this idea of a bot that can do uncontroversial cleanup on articles. The original discussion at the WP:Teahouse is as follows:

Previous comments folded for readability

Hi, I'm thinking of a bot concept that allows the automatic, non-controversial tagging and cleanup of certain articles. It can, for example, add tags like {{lead too long}} or {{Uncategorized}}, but not, for example, {{copy edit}}. It can also potentially tag articles unsourced for an extended period of time for PRODding. What would be your opinions on this potential bot? Thanks. tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 13:14, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Hello, I like your proposal, but WP:Bot requests is probably the better place to post this. PorkchopGMX (talk with me - what i've done) 13:32, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
The Lord of Math, you might also want to open a discussion at either Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab) or Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals), as this would likely have more impacts than a typical bot. ~~ Alex Noble - talk 13:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
@Alex Noble and PorkchopGMX: Thanks. BRFA required a "consensus" for bot tasks and I'm looking for one. So is Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals) the preferred location for obtaining it?Thanks. tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 13:50, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
The Lord of Math, Proposals would be the where consensus is made; the idea lab is for developing the details before it goes to proposals. ~~ Alex Noble - talk 13:58, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Would you please give your opinions on this? tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 14:16, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

​I don't think this task is well suited for a bot, pages are usually categorized fairly well with only 30 results shown on Special:UncategorizedPages. {{Lead too long}} is context-sensitive and for most transclusions of that template that I've come across the lead is actually just fine. Automatic PRODing would not be good since you'd need to read the article yourself anyway to check if it really needs deletion, would flood the PROD system since there are currently 180,000 unsourced pages. – Thjarkur (talk) 17:28, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Sorry for all the confusion about forums, but I think you'd probably get the best response from Wikipedians most knowledgeable about bots at WP:BOTREQ. Be prepared, though, I expect Þjarkur may be right. It's harder to find tasks suitable for bots than one might expect since there are so many exceptions to take into account, and many of the most obvious bot tasks already have a bit doing them. Sdkb (talk) 17:34, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
We need to distinguish between policy changes and bot requests. For anyone, whether a bot or not, to automatically propose an article for deletion for being unsourced (unless it is a WP:BLP) would require a change to policy before it could be considered as a bot task. I have no opinion as yet on the other proposals, but have my doubts about whether a bot could decide on {{lead too long}}. There are certainly cases where the bright line of four paragraphs given in that template is not appropriate for a particular article, so this needs something cleverer than that. Phil Bridger (talk) 19:04, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
These seem like good ideas in theory (save for the unref = PROD idea, which is outright bad) until you sit down and think about the details. The issue here is that most cleanup tasks are textbook cases of WP:CONTEXTBOT. Specific tasks, like tagging with {{Uncategorized}}, would probably be OK, because there is a clear, well-defined criteria for tagging, but things like {{Lead too long}} are simply too arbitrary to botify. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:19, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Tagging is not cleanup. It is just pushing the problem into the future and drawing attention. Too many tags is a disservice to our readers as adding clutter. Particularly with "lead too long", it just adds to the length! Certainly automated proding is just destructive. It would be much better if your proposed bot finds sources for an unsourced page. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 22:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks for all your opinions. I just went over all the tags, and believe that these tags may be added by bots:
Possible tasks
  1. {{All plot}}: almost entirely a plot summary
  2. {{BLP sources}}: BLP that needs additional sources for verification
  3. {{BLP unsourced}}: BLP that has no sources at all (use BLP PROD instead for new articles)
  4. {{Cleanup bare URLs}}: uses bare URLs for references, which are prone to link rot
  5. {{Condense}}: too many section headers dividing up content
  6. {{Dead end}}: article has no links to other articles
  7. {{In use}}: undergoing a major edit for a short while
  8. {{Lead missing}}: no lead section
  9. {{Lead too short}}: lead section is too short and should be expanded to summarize key points
  10. {{No footnotes}}: has references, but lacks inline citations
  11. {{No plot}}: needs a plot summary
  12. {{Not English}}: written in a language other than English and needs translation
  13. {{One source}}: relies largely or entirely on a single source
  14. {{Orphan}}: linked to from no other articles
  15. {{Overlinked}}: too many duplicate and/or irrelevant links to other articles
  16. {{Overly detailed}}: excessive amount of intricate detail
  17. {{Over-quotation}}: too many or too-lengthy quotations for an encyclopedic entry
  18. {{Sections}}: needs to be divided into sections by topic
  19. {{Uncategorized}}: not added to any categories
  20. {{Underlinked}}: needs more wikilinks to other arti/* Bot proposal (from Teahouse) */ cles
  21. {{Unreferenced}}: does not cite any sources at all
  22. {{Update}}: needs additional up-to-date information added

Those with an @ indicate that the bot may fix the problem itself.

I hope the bot could be able to complete the above tasks! If you believe that the bot can do something more, please tell me!; thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 01:13, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

For the PROD part I meant BLPPROD. The guidelines said that unsourced articles may be nominated for BLPPROD. Would it be better now? tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 01:23, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
tLoM, how will your bot detect articles that contain only Wikipedia:General references or manual Wikipedia:Parenthetical referencing?
Also, what makes you believe that the general maintenance tags actually do anything useful? Very few editors are just hanging around and waiting for a tag to appear on a favorite article.
As for the specific tags you've highlighted, {{In use}} is completely inappropriate (how would a bot know whether I'm still working on it, or if I've gone to bed?), {{orphan}} is one step away from being deprecated (it doesn't even display on the article unless there are multiple issues), and except in extreme cases (like just one outgoing link), {{underlinked}} is a matter of judgment and therefore not suitable for a bot. I think this is generally a bad idea (tagging articles is not a useful activity in general), and I specifically think that half of the ones you're considering are inappropriate for any bot, and I would think that even if I thought that WP:OVERTAGGING weren't a serious problem. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:43, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing: Yep, but after all this long list can always be changed! There are so many articles that goes forgotten after creation (one of my first articles took over 1 month for a review), so I believe that it may, for instance, highlight some more egregious problems. Some of these aren't that well thought out, but I believe that a bot can at least deal with certain tagging (e.g. lack of sources) and BLPPRODding problems. (Someone recommended adding sources by the bot, but I believe it leads to a lot of false positive. Besides, it's my first bot and I'm not an advanced programmer.) Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 04:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Have you considered writing a bot to remove tags, rather than to add them? For example, if there is any URL in the wikitext source and any ref tag, then remove {{unsourced}}. Or if there is an incoming link, then remove {{orphan}}. Things like that should be less controversial. WhatamIdoing (talk) 06:02, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Of the above, the vast majority are WP:CONTEXTBOT snow fails. Only #4 {{Cleanup bare URLs}}, #6 {{Dead end}}, #14 {{Orphan}} (when zero articles link to the page), #19 {{Uncategorized}} and #20 {{Underlinked}} (when there is zero links) possibly #7 {{Lead missing}} would make possibly good bot tasks. Everything else has too many cornercases, exceptions, or lack consensus to do by bots. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 05:44, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

@The Lord of Math: If you're interested in bot tasks, you may find it helpful to browse through some of the examples at WP:BOTREQ to get a sense of what kinds of things bots are and are not capable of doing. Your proposal reminds me very much of myself a while back, when I came to BOTREQ arguing for the creation of a bot to perform what I thought was a pretty simple and straightforward task. After looking around a bit more and receiving some gentle socratic prodding from more experienced editors, I came to realize how big of an issue WP:CONTEXTBOT is and scaled back my request. Sdkb (talk) 06:31, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Sdkb: This is exactly why I decided to come here. But while some of the tasks may prove controversial, I believe that there are several uncontroversial tasks that a bot may be capable of doing:
  1. auto WP:PRODding of BLPs after, say, a week;
  2. Tagging articles as "Unreferenced" or "One source";
  3. Tagging articles as "No lead section".

Would you please give some review and improve the detail before I go to WP:VP/PR. Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 06:42, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

@The Lord of Math: Several editors here have already given you generous feedback on why most of your proposals are inappropriate. Please internalize their feedback, even if it's not what you're hoping to hear, before proceeding further. In my view, it would be inappropriate to go to WP:VP/PR, as that is a centralized forum for project-wide concerns, whereas a centralized forum for bot tasks already exists at WP:BOTREQ. Sdkb (talk) 06:49, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing and Sdkb: (edit conflict) Removing tags is definitely a great idea that I've never thought of before. Removal of many tags is definitely less controversial. So let me sum up what we've got:
Possible tasks
  • Adding of these tags:
  1. {{Dead end}}
  2. {{Orphan}}
  3. {{Uncategorized}}
  4. {{Underlinked}} (only when very few links are present and article is sufficiently long)
  5. {{Lead missing}}
  6. {{Unsourced}} and its BLP variants;
  • Removal of these tags: (list not yet cleaned up)
  1. {{BLP sources}}: BLP that needs additional sources for verification
  2. {{BLP unsourced}}: BLP that has no sources at all (use BLP PROD instead for new articles)
  3. {{Cleanup bare URLs}}: uses bare URLs for references, which are prone to link rot
  4. {{Dead end}}: article has no links to other articles
  5. {{In use}}: undergoing a major edit for a short while
  6. {{Lead missing}}: no lead section
  7. {{No footnotes}}: has references, but lacks inline citations
  8. {{Not English}}: written in a language other than English and needs translation
  9. {{One source}}: relies largely or entirely on a single source
  10. {{Orphan}}: linked to from no other articles
  11. {{Overlinked}}: too many duplicate and/or irrelevant links to other articles
  12. {{Overly detailed}}: excessive amount of intricate detail
  13. {{Uncategorized}}: not added to any categories
  14. {{Underlinked}}: needs more wikilinks to other articles
  15. {{Unreferenced}}: does not cite any sources at all
  • BLP PRODding unsourced BLPs created recently

If you could improve or restrict this list, please do so. Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 06:54, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Just to reiterate, I'm definitely not going to take it to WP:VP/PR just yet. I'd still need to perfect it so that everyone finds the plan acceptable. Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 06:55, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
  • Please do not hide comments that you don't like by collapsing them. People have spent time and effort telling you what thay think of your idea, so it is discourteous to hide their comments in this way. I would not trust anyone who thought that was a good idea with writing a bot. And secondly, you have things the wrong way round here. The thought process should not be "I want to write a bot, so what should it do?", but "I can see a problem, and a bot is the best way to solve it". Phil Bridger (talk) 08:53, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Phil Bridger: Okay, seriously I didn't intend to do that. Thanks for teaching me. But anyway if you're here, could you help me? My questions haven't been completely answered. Sorry about that, but thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 08:56, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
Oops. But adding to the previous post, I had a basic framework for what a bot could do (tag/untag a page), and then the reason why I'm here is to ask for what should the bot specifically do, not whether doing something is okay for a bot. That's why I've came up with the list above and am asking for opinion on the list. I hope I've made myself clear. Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 09:03, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
The specific reason is that bots are not that smart, and unless you can come up with clear criteria for tagging, and gain consensus for those tasks, they will simply not happen. Consider what you probably thing is a simple straightforward case {{Unreferenced}}. How does a bot determine that an article is unreferenced? The lack of <ref></ref>? That forgets inline citations like "According to Hoyle (1944), ...". The absence of a ==References== section? They might be disguised as external links or further reading sections. Etc. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 09:26, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Headbomb: Yep, some can't be done by bots, so perhaps a bot can put them in a tracking category like "Category:Articles possibly lacking sources" and leave it to a human for review? tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 10:34, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@Headbomb, Sdkb, Phil Bridger, and WhatamIdoing: pinging everyone -- let me reorganize what might the bot be capable of doing:
Possible bot tasks, transcluded from User:The Lord of Math/bot tasks planning
  • Adding of these tags:
  1. {{Dead end}}
  2. {{Orphan}}
  3. {{Underlinked}} (only when very few links are present and article is sufficiently long)
  4. {{Lead missing}}
  • Removal of these tags: (list not yet cleaned up)
  1. {{BLP sources}}: BLP that needs additional sources for verification
    • criteria: source found
      • <ref></ref> tags found
      • nonempty == Further reading == section found
  2. {{BLP unsourced}}: BLP that has no sources at all (use BLP PROD instead for new articles)
    • criteria: same as above
  3. {{Cleanup bare URLs}}: uses bare URLs for references, which are prone to link rot
  4. {{Dead end}}: article has no links to other articles
    • criteria: link ([[...]]) found (plain link preferred; infobox not counted)
  5. {{In use}}: undergoing a major edit for a short while
    • criteria: unedited for over 2 hours
  6. {{Lead missing}}: no lead section
    • criteria: lead found
  7. {{No footnotes}}: has references, but lacks inline citations
    • criteria: <ref></ref> tags found
  8. {{Orphan}}: linked to from no other articles
    • criteria: deorphaned (linked to from over 2 articles)
  9. {{Uncategorized}}: not added to any categories
    • criteria: has at least 2 categories
  10. {{Unreferenced}}: does not cite any sources at all
  • BLP PRODding unsourced BLPs created recently
    • criteria: created in past 7 days and still unsourced
If you'd like to change the page, please feel free to improve it at User:The Lord of Math/bot tasks planning! Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 13:09, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
@The Lord of Math: Replying to the original message that started all of this:
Consider doing this in a semi-automated fashion.
Write a page-scanning script that will identify pages that might benefit from things like having templates added or removed, then saving the output to someplace like User:The Lord of Math/PagesNeedingAttention/todaysdatehere broken down by sections with what is wrong, like User:The Lord of Math/PagesNeedingAttention/todaysdatehere § Possibly no sources. Then write user-scripts we as editors can install that will add tags manually with a click of a button AND mark the item in the list as reviewed. This way, I as an editor can click on a link in your list, review it, then use a user-script you write to click one of two buttons: "False alarm" or "bag and tag." If I click "false alarm" it adds the page to a whitelist so the page is ignored the next time you run the page-scanning script. If I click "bag and tag" it applies the template or does whatever other changes is needed. In either case, it removes the page from the list since that page is "done" as far as the page-scanning script is concerned.
If you don't have the skills to write scripts, find people who do.
You do not need approval to write tools that are semi-automated as long as they don't make "suprise edits," as the users of the tools will be held responsible for all edits made by the tools, same as any other edit. See Wikipedia:User scripts for details on user scripts and links to lists of existing scripts. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:00, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
In terms of the list, {{Uncategorized}} is a waste of time. We don't need a bot to duplicate Special:UncategorizedPages, especially since many of these articles need someone to click 'Undo' on the edit that removed the cats. Also, at any given point in time, there are just a couple of uncat'd articles (out of 6,027,489 articles). WhatamIdoing (talk) 17:39, 6 March 2020 (UTC)
But if you said of "putting the output in userspace", then why can't I write a bot that reads articles and pipes the output to userspace? As per WP:BOTUSERSPACE, I don't think it needs prior approval. Thanks! tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 02:47, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
This discussion really is starting to feel like the real goal is to just have a bot, no matter how pointless it actually is. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:58, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Yes, exactly, and it hasn't just started to feel like that. This was the point of the second half of my post here. I have tried to refrain from quoting a cliché, but I don't think I can do any better than say that this is a textbook case of a solution in search of a problem. Phil Bridger (talk) 21:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

Some thought from a bot maker..

  • We have a bot for {{Cleanup bare URLs}}. Anyone can run it. The control page is Template:Cleanup_bare_URLs/bot. It requires users to clean up the links or it won't keep running to keep the number of tagged pages from going critical.
  • I wrote a bot to add {{unsourced}}. It added about 10,000. It was non-trivial taking months of testing due to endless edge case exceptions and community pressure about not making mistakes.
  • Bots like this are hard, more then they appear ie. how hard can it be to find articles without a reference? The answer is damned hard, if you want 99% accuracy. As someone else already mentioned, the low hanging fruit of bot work is mostly done, what is left is probably because it is hard, not because it's a new idea. We need creative new approaches to old problems, like the Cleanup bare URLs system. Very few people use the Cleanup bare URLs system. Like, one person. They have fixed about 0.001 of the articles with bare links. -- GreenC 20:25, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Okay, thanks for your opinion. As mentioned about, it emerged that instead of editing the actual pages, it might be better to save everything to my userspace and let a person sort that out. I guess the safest things to do are:
  1. write a userspace bot that logs these pages, or
  2. refraining to write a bot altogether.
I guess it can (kind of) solve the problem, and besides, it's not hard to write such a userspace bot. So is there anything wrong with this idea, bring everything all under userspace? Thanks. tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 11:28, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
An addendum: if it is not okay then I may as well make it a semi- or non-automated process. tLoM (The Lord of Math) (Message) 11:40, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Before you spend too much time on this you should check to see whether what you want to do has been done before. I don't use any semi-automated tools myself but understand that AWB can suggest many potential tags to put on articles. Phil Bridger (talk) 11:50, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

Expansion of info at Community bulletin board[edit]

Hi everyone. I am writing to let everyone know that the Wikipedia:Community bulletin board has been greatly expanded, with the addition of a brand-new section called Wikiproject group activities and efforts, providing an extensive list by month of current community activities, including group editing projects at WikiProjects, as well as any types of contests, editing drives, general improvement drives, and really any kind of community efforts and activities whatsoever. we hope to expand and update this section in the months ahead.

Please feel free to add any items there that you might wish. I would like to explore some different possibilities for exploring this and for expanding this as a resource. Please feel free to go there, take a look, and to let me know what you think. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 14:09, 6 March 2020 (UTC)

Straw poll: Disincentivize spam by reducing Search Engine impact[edit]

If Wikipedia told search engines not to index articles until it is either patrolled or it has been an artricle page for 10 consecutive days, that would cut down on spammers, since spam would likely be deleted during those 10 days.

While this could be implimented today with some "clever/hackish" use of existing tools, doing it right requires software changes, so don't expect it this year even if there is a huge demand.

If there is support I will make a more formal proposal on Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals). davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 17:41, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

davidwr, this already happens, except that we do it for 90 days. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:56, 7 March 2020 (UTC)
Explained a little bit further on the page WP:NOINDEX. Most spammers probably aren't even aware of this limitation. – Thjarkur (talk) 18:51, 8 March 2020 (UTC)
Thanks, I'll make a new straw poll about modifying the text that appears when a new page is created AND extending the rule to include pages moved TO article space (albeit for a shorter period of time), to make it much harder to game the system with user-space or other drafts. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs) 16:34, 9 March 2020 (UTC)
@Davidwr: - if you move a draft to mainspace, it still needs patrolling before it is indexable (unless you are autopatrolled) Nosebagbear (talk) 11:23, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Dark/Night Mode and Color Themes[edit]

Hello everybody!

This is my first post on Wikipedia but this looks like the best place to make a suggestion. Would it be possible for us to create a dark/night mode for Wikipedia, so that instead of the classic white and grey background, it could perhaps be black and dark grey? It could not only look really cool, but also be easier on people's eyes if they were viewing at night. Also, maybe users could toggle it on and off so it could be their default way of seeing Wikipedia articles if they so chose. I'd love to help but don't know how to code--does anybody have any ideas/suggestions on how to make this happen?

One other idea would be to offer color themes that people could choose from or create their own. I wonder if it would be a way to help people personalize Wikipedia a bit more for themselves--or do y'all think that would detract from the purpose of the site?

Best, Caleb

We should do this the same way it already exists in the mobile app. El Millo (talk) 19:41, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
  • I would support this. Everywhere else I do stuff online I use dark-mode --it's a lot easier on the eyes. :) I don't know how feasible this would be, but I would definitely like it. Thanks, Puddleglum2.0(How's my driving?) 00:04, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
Dark Mode toggle.--Moxy 🍁 00:33, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

Idea for a new community navigation template[edit]

I have a new idea for a community navigation template, which I have created at the page below. what do you think of this? I created this by using code from the Wikipedia: Community portal, and then adding some further links. feel free to let me know what you think. is this useful? thanks.

thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 01:40, 12 March 2020 (UTC)

At the recent ANI you said you'd follow the advice you were being given (basically, do normal editing rather than coming up with new ideas). DexDor (talk) 12:30, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
hi DexDor. just to reply to your note above, I am indeed following the advice I was given. the advice was to seek consensus, to act deliberatively. to use the established channels to obtain consensus before proceeding with any changes. and to not post notice in multiple locations, but rather to use one single forum that is most appropriate for discussing the idea with the community, rather than multiple locations. that is precisely what I am doing here. so I am accepting that advice completely.
In the future, I would appreciate if we could please not debate about whether I can or cannot edit in any particular areas of the project. I do think you absolutely mean well, and I think you are a highly valuable, conscientious, diligent and knowledgeable editor who acts purely out of concern for the best interests of Wikipedia. so I highly, highly respect your insights. however, I would like to dispense with the topic of whether I can or cannot edit any particular area, especially in this case, where I am using a thoroughly appropriate forum. as I noted, I will absolutely glad to be much more aware of the discursive and deliberative processes here, and to respect them more deeply, and more thoughtfully.
I absolutely think that your great experience and wisdom is a major asset to the project and to the community, and I am glad to express that here. I would simply, gently point out, that in our communications, we should both strive to adhere to WP:AGF, and WP:Civility. I think you are a very conscientious editor, so I feel very confident that this note will be sufficient to address any such issue.
In closing, let me just note that I do hope to comment at various intervals on various items which may come up here. Obviously, you are free to comment on any such items, as a highly-respected, experienced, and knowledgeable editor. I would appreciate it if we could please dispense with the issue of whether I can or cannot edit in regards to any particular topics, items or areas here. Let me just reiterate, I think that all of your work here is extremely valuable, insightful, and of great benefit. I look forward to benefiting from your considerable insight and expertise in the future. I appreciate you taking the time to write. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 14:05, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
You're taking on too much, again. Recommend you try gnome editing. GoodDay (talk) 20:27, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
The idea that this is "too much" seems... rather overblown. We're talking about a minor revamp to the top part of WP:COM: to use a bullet point form of the intro, and the addition of two links boxes (CP, RFC). I'm generally indifferent to it, but I'll say that adding a CP link to the CP header is pointless because you're already there. Also the intro should not assume that users are new. First state what the page is about, because thats' relevant to everyone. Then give advice to newbies. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 20:42, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
thank you, Headbomb. GoodDay, I do appreciate your input. I know that you definitely mean well. I'd appreciate if we could please try to avoid personal comments. the topic of this section is simply this proposal. Headbomb, those are good points. however, my reason for proposing this nav box was to suggest it for use in other locations, in addition to its current use on WP:COM. One group of potential locations might be the other places linked to from this nav box itself. so therefore, for example, another place that we might put this nav box might be Dispute Resolution, or Requests for Comment, or Reference Desk, or in other words, any of the other sites featured as links within this nav box. I appreciate your input. Open to any comments on this. thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 21:37, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
If the idea is to put this on other pages than WP:COM, then I'm against that. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 21:40, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
Headbomb okay, fair enough. based on your comments above, I have edited the draft. I appreciate your taking the time to look at this draft and provide the input above. If you have a chance, could you please let me know your opinion of the current version? thanks. --Sm8900 (talk) 22:02, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
My opinion is general unchanged. The 'intro' bit is now better/closer to the current version. Still against this being put on other pages. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 22:08, 12 March 2020 (UTC)
I understand. by the way, thank you for the edits that you made to this draft document. those edits look totally fine, and much improved. thanks!!! Thumbs up --Sm8900 (talk) 13:25, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Standard format to squeeze IABot sections on talk pages[edit]

InternetArchiveBot (IABot) is wonderful. It automatically fixes some dead links by linking to historic versions of the same pages on Internet Archive. Then it leaves substantial messages on talk pages. Those message get old or out of date, sometimes because a human editor confirms the edit was good. I would like to squeeze those messages down, because they take space and more importantly they put a cognitive load on readers, especially new editors.

Here's an experiment with an approach I like. See Talk:Vera Berdich.

By pasting in a block of wikicode above and below the IABot message, we put it into a show/hide box. Thus the message is not forgotten but a visitor to the page doesn't have to parse it. We can put multiple IABot messages into such a box. I copied the box from the magnificently formatted Clausius–Duhem inequality. I propose to do this by hand, ad hoc. If it goes well for a while then perhaps a bot can do this.

Is that a good practice? Or is there another way to accomplish this sort of cleanup? I could just delete the IABot sections. I have also posted the question to the IRC for IABot. -- econterms (talk) 20:42, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

My understanding is that these messages are no longer left on the talk page by the bot. Which is good. Others must have agreed that the messages were close to inactionable, and placed too much low-value text on many many talk pages. (I delete them when I happen to be otherwise editing a talk page.) Outriggr (talk) 10:18, 14 March 2020 (UTC)
There was indeed such a discussion, although I believe we concluded that nobody was acting on them, rather than it being impossible to act upon them. I also blank those old messages on occasion. WhatamIdoing (talk) 04:34, 17 March 2020 (UTC)
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